first, i'm really enjoying my new "imperfect" toy,

i have found a bug, and YES, it's a "bug" (not intended to sound like this)

how can I or Ketron fix these Audio drum bugs that plague some of the loops?

basically when the audio drums repeat, usually after the 8th measure,
a very noticeable click is heard

other times, the beginning of 9th measure (point of repeat)
comes in a bit late.

this is not a problem on all audio loops,
some are actually PERFECT,
others are not
so when fills are triggered, it sounds jumpy.

have a listen,
the ballad has an audio click @ 25 sec.,
the disco comes in bit late (@ repeat around 0:48)
http://www.box.net/shared/mbv207qie3

Congrats on the Audya, Lee....

How does it sound with the bass, accomp. etc

can you post a mp3 of the styles complete

I heard it though, annoying but it may sound better with the full style.

thanks mc,

with bass and stuff, pretty much same behavior,
still noticeable

this TIMING issue is something Ketron should really fix on these "problematic" loops,
i mean if the breaks come in bit late, and clicks are heard on some and not on others,

i'm thinking they were sloppy with some of the .wav files,

if i could open these loops in protools, soundforge, i would compare the good with the bad, and fix them

mc,

got some portuguese rhythms for me ? :-)

it sounds pretty accurate to me for live music which is what it actually is. I guess when you employ live musicians to create the drum tracks you get all the features of live druumming including the odd imperfect timeing. its not sufficient to spoil you fun Leeboy.

Leezone.....
Do not forget that we have with Real Drummers play ......
This means that we do not have absolute Quantize….
However ......existed also a small problem with locators of Audio Drums player, but this has been untied to a large extent….
However I will give again a report about this, in a engineer of Ketron, and we see how much can this be improved more ......
I am working every day, with Audya in live gigs, but I do not face any serious problem about this....... on the contrary .........all is very good.....
Thanks
Sokratis



[This message has been edited by Sokratis 1974 (edited 09-12-2010).]

it is not accurate,

having to deal with every 8 measures an inconsistency, is not cool

i want to fix this

AJ, any way i can open up these drum grooves in my DAW, so i can compare the good loops with the bad, and fix this?

from the tempo's i know exactly how long these loops should be, and apparently they are off a bit, and the waveforms are not crossing @ the "0"

sokratis,

it's not a quantization thing,

it's all perfect till it has to repeat,
there is inconsistencies, some worse than others,

sp when you're constantly changing Variations, there's a lag, and it's noticeable,

maybe it's just a matter of the "markers" withing the audio, which tells it where to jump, is in the wrong place.

i do know that each style's audio drums is 1 continuous audio file, there is not one for A, one for B, etc

I hear what your talking about. Your right about the waves. They are sloppy and not sliced correctly. You might want to time-stretch the fills to get the timing just right.

Yes Leezone......
I think also that it is a problem with locators (or MARKERS) of Audio Drums Player (in Audya)......
Ok......I will give a report in Ketron ( in a engeneer) about this....

[This message has been edited by Sokratis 1974 (edited 09-12-2010).]

sokratis,

let me know if Ketron needs a list of the "problematic" loops

would be great if we could edit the drum wavs and/or markers on the AUDYA itself, to fix these problems

let us know what Ketron says

I swear, Leezone, you are like a troll. Man, you should just wear the damn thing for 30 days and then...

hey,

don't hate because i can hear VERY well

Those Galitches are due to imperfect Loops, can they be fixed, yes in the PC world but
on Audya i dont know, it needs a whole Software or resources upgrade for that.

Nedim,

if Ketron tells me how to fix them on the PC,
i will fix them ALL for free,
and then share with everyone,

it just does not make sense that a very basic and important thing,
the timing of the loops is NOT right on tons of the loops,

inexusable on a on a 4-5 thousand dollar machine if you ask me

Lee,
Yep, I hear it...to me the click may be from the loop point not lining up EXACTLY with the start. You know what I mean.

When I did some of my own sounds on the PA2...I had to get it just right. The wave must match up on the loop or you get the click.

I'm with you..and it pisses me off. I get a T2, Pa2 etc and if you play the sounds note by note withing the instruments range...you get bad variation in vibrato, timbre etc that ruins a nice slow ballad. It's all about bad samples & Bad programming...not the sound engine itself.

These sound engineers must only test this stuff on very fast passages where you don't hear the problems. Yep for the kind of $$ we pay for TOTL arrangers we should not have this issue. If I paid ...say $1200, then maybe I would give them some slack...not in a $3500-4500 instrument.

But, we buy them anyways don't we?
One way to fix it...quit buying util they give us better quality. Take the stuff back, but a lot of people would have to, if it was to make a difference.

Not expecting PERFECT...but there should be very little of this crap in these baby's.

Lee S.

leeboy,

i know exactly what causes the click as i fix things like this every day, it's part of my job :-),
the waveforms are not crossing at the same point

i can fix this stuff IF given the tools to do so, Ketron you there?

and some loops are not the PERFECT length

for example:
a drum loop of 8 bars (4 beats per bar)
at a tempo of 105BPM

should yield a loop of EXACTLY 18.285 seconds, not less not more, NOT 18.3

its these small , but HUGE details that makes for a perfect loop,

but not everyone is capable of hearing or distinguishing these fine details



[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-12-2010).]

double post...sorry

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-12-2010).]

Lee,
I would identify the issues...and get it to Ketron...make them fix the bloody thing..OR pay you to do it:-))

Now...on the Korg PA2XPRO...I can get into that level and fix that kind of problem..all of the tools are there in the sampling module (Everythng yo uneed to do a complte sound...(Even though doing it on PC is faster)
Lee S.

This has been an issue since the very start but has, believe it or not, improved dramatically since the very first OS. It used to be much more noticeable, and also present in most of the styles.

Like I said

I will fix ALL of them for free All 400+ loops
If given the tools to do so

Morten. It's good they fixed many already
But there are lots more.

This should be priority IMO.

When is 4.1c. Coming

This is an issue we are aware of and working on for an upcoming software release. It has to do with increasing the 'resolution' of the markers and in some cases re-aligning the marker on the 'start' point of the Audio drum.

Thanks,

AJ

THANK YOU AJ !!!
THANK YOU AJ !!!
THANK YOU AJ !!!

once more...

THANK YOU AJ !!!

it's just funny (for lack of a better word)
how some people think this problem is "normal" and NOT a bug...

and sadder that some people don't actually notice or hear the problem in the first place

AJ,

how about on those loops that have reverb happening at the very end,
or a cymbal hit at very end...

and when loop repeats it all immediately goes "dry", and obviously sounds awkward

can anything be done to "mask" or fix this?

for those that have not noticed it, it won't be a problem for you

Yes, and i did notice on a few styles,
the very first time you sync/start the style,
it stutters, hesitates (sounds cut off)

i assume this realigning of the markers will solve these problems,

please keep us posted AJ on this "BUG" fix

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-13-2010).]

And even sadder that some people don't notice it in the store BEFORE they buy the thing, even when they spend the whole day playing it prior to buying it!

Thing is, I've noticed a few of these 'hiccups' on previous demos, but always assumed that it was due to incorrect timing when asking for a fill or variation change. That the loop itself is not timed perfectly is pretty lazy, if you ask me.

However... If all the loops exist on the Audya's HD as .wav files, I guess there's no reason why they can't be read by a computer DAW, and corrected and written back to the HD, is there? If something like this is reasonably easy to do, why not make it a user project and edit them, then share the results? Sometimes, it is better to fix the problem yourselves, than wait and wait (and wait!) for the designer to do it, if they ever do.

I know this isn't going to cure the marker resolution problem, but it might help alleviate the problem.

But, one more thing... Try LISTENING to the problem in the context of an entire mix (rather than soloing and isolating the audio glitch). You might find that the problem isn't QUITE as noticeable when surrounded by other stuff that DOESN'T glitch.

i did notice this before buying it,
BUT,
Diki i was so impressed by the sound that i had to buy it,

and a whole morning playing it, was enough to get through only about 25% of all styles and sounds :-)

Diki, i tried opening these drums in my DAW, but they seems to be of a proprietary format,

i would fix them myself if need be,

but according to AJ's post, they are aware of it, and working on a software release,

so good news is that it's fixable, by Ketron at least,

in the meantime, i will continue to enjoy my new toy

Don't forget, MIDI based arrangers have some pretty sophisticated things going on under the hood to smooth out glitches that occur when we ask for fills or variations fractionally late, or off beat.

None of this works with a loop. Everything is a trade-off. You get better realism with audio, at the price of a complete inability to revoice or edit it, and more easily perceived loop boundaries.

Seems like you have got your priorities sorted out, but I wouldn't be holding my breath for a software update to cure this completely (or a timeline on that update that won't leave you frustrated). Hopefully, the great sound will help you get past this (it certainly never did for Tony!) and keep you from turning as bitter as some have become

Leezone any progress on fixing this?

only AJ & the Ketron team would know about the progress of fixing these audio "bugs"